saw filing maintenance skill share, Scotland, Oct 25-26 2014

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saw filing maintenance skill share, Scotland, Oct 25-26 2014

Postby Gavin Longrain » July 14th, 2014, 10:58 am

To be held in comfortable workshops in Dalbeattie, near Dumfries, Scotland DG5 4BE, a saw maintenance skill share.
If you'd like to come, and you have saw skills to share, PM me. We've got 3 filers already - and that's enough to make it happen definitely.

No charge for participating.

This will be a practice for a larger saw-related event I hope to run later. And at that later event, newbie filers would be welcomed.

As I have not run a saw-sharpening workshop before, I'd love any comment or suggestion on what to do to make it run well.

BTW: This will be for Great American and raker-toothed saws and NOT for ripsaws or tenon saws - you know, about the size you'd have to use to fell or buck a tree.
Last edited by Gavin Longrain on July 19th, 2014, 1:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: saw maintenance skill share, Scotland, Oct 25-26 2014

Postby PATCsawyer » July 15th, 2014, 1:17 pm

If you do big saws, have a sawbuck and log to practice on. Whenever I teach a workshop, I bring lots of "examples" (felling and bucking saws with different tooth configurations, a variety of handles, wedges, filing tools, etc) I also made up a pass-around saw section with one set of teeth and rakers unswaged, unset, and hardwood-filed, and another set swaged, widely set, and softwood filed so the students can see the difference. I begin the workshop with a powerpoint slideshow of early 20th century logging photos showing how huge trees were felled and bucked with the very saws and axes I have on hand, then launch into lectures on safety and techniques. I don't go too deep into filing unless someone wants a better understanding of the process, as it is a separate class entirely.

If your class is just saw maintenance, have a "before" and an "after" saw of similar type. Let the participants grind through a log with a rusty dull blade then hand them a clean finished one. The results will speak for themselves.
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Re: saw filing maintenance skill share, Scotland, Oct 25-26

Postby Gavin Longrain » July 19th, 2014, 1:02 am

The intention is to improve knowledge of saw-filing of Great American AND raker-toothed saws, so when we each go back home we can do it better. It now seems likely we'll have four persons :D with skills to share.

I have suggested to them we do some of our planning in public on this forum so we could gain from experience of others who HAVE done this and run workshops in filing. I have not, so will appreciate all comment.

I have secured a source of Vallorbe files, so we won't be short of them.
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Re: saw maintenance skill share, Scotland, Oct 25-26 2014

Postby Gavin Longrain » July 19th, 2014, 1:36 am

PATCsawyer wrote:I also made up a pass-around saw section with one set of teeth and rakers unswaged, unset, and hardwood-filed, and another set swaged, widely set, and softwood filed so the students can see the difference.

PATC,
Would you elaborate more on the angles for softwood and hardwood filing? I know this is rather difficult to convey as a one-off communication, so I'll PM you and hope you may be able to either post here pictures with protractors in them, or send them me.
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Re: saw filing maintenance skill share, Scotland, Oct 25-26

Postby sumnergeo » July 19th, 2014, 3:04 am

The photo contains a piece of wood with 60 degree (softwood) and 45 degree bevels (hardwood) on it. My bevels turn out to be closer to the 45 than 60.
IMG_4565.JPG
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Re: saw filing maintenance skill share, Scotland, Oct 25-26

Postby Gavin Longrain » July 19th, 2014, 8:21 am

Sumnergeo,
1. When looking down from the top, what are the fleam angles please of your hardwood single-tooth template?
2. What is the purpose of the wooden saw template with multiple teeth?
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Re: saw filing maintenance skill share, Scotland, Oct 25-26

Postby sumnergeo » July 19th, 2014, 10:14 am

In the wooden models, the diamond shape tip for the tooth is at 60 degrees and I made the bevels at 45 and 60 degrees. If a rip saw has a fleam angle of zero, then my 45 degree bevel has a fleam of around 30 degrees and my bevel at 60 has a fleam of around 45 degrees. In honesty, I don't think about the fleam, I file a tooth with my adjustable vise set at a modest angle, 15 to 20 degrees from vertical; OR with my non-adjustable vise which is at a 45 degree angle. I then pass my file across the tooth at an angle. I'll do one or two teeth and check the bevel. If it is not what I want, I'll change my filing angle to get the right bevel. I don't think about the fleam. I have marks on my vise at 30 degrees so that works out for the 45 degree bevels.

You could do what I have done, cut a piece of wood and see what you get or tape together card stock for the same purposes. For the mathematically adept, there are some basic formulas regarding the intersection of planes. Since most of my teeth are almond shaped, not like the pyramids of a lance tooth or the straight-sided teeth of some Champion teeth, I have gone the measure-the bevel-route rather dealing with a fleam angle.

This is my Keep It Simple approach and certainly doesn't encompass the many subtleties for different woods and saws.

You had a 2) but can't remember what it was.
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Re: saw filing maintenance skill share, Scotland, Oct 25-26

Postby sumnergeo » July 19th, 2014, 10:18 am

2). It was meant to have the different bevels on it but the larger stick showed things better and then I thought it was a useful to write down the steps involved in sharpening a saw.
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Re: saw filing maintenance skill share, Scotland, Oct 25-26

Postby Sawman » August 3rd, 2014, 1:01 am

Dear Gavin, due to selling a house and work commitments I have been very busy. Now Iam back. Looking forward very much to to the sawfest and will bring all my saws, all 12 of them. The good the bad and the gergious. I will have to get my finger out and make a 'Dolly Vise' (got the spelling right this time, in joke). I just use a Disston saw vise wihich is just ok, so it will be good to have a good fileing vise.
I do feel we need to get organised here in the U.K. with the old crosscut and try to get it reintroduced at some level other than a hobby. So this we can disscuss when I get up there, but I do feel this is the start of somthing. From little acorns etc. I can see that the cousins from the States are already giveing us a lot of help (as always, some of us haven't forgotten) which we are very greatful for. Could I surgest that we use the Saturday to go over things, plan, file, saws etc and then on the Sunday to run a teaching course for anybody that may be intrested and then we can see how it could go in the future.
Will sign off now but will be in touch again. Regards to all Duncan (sawman)
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Re: saw filing maintenance skill share, Scotland, Oct 25-26

Postby Gavin Longrain » August 5th, 2014, 6:07 am

Sawman wrote: I surgest that we use the Saturday to go over things, plan, file, saws etc and then on the Sunday to run a teaching course for anybody that may be intrested

I may be taking your remarks out of context and I am reluctant to personally teach or facilitate others' teaching of any person. I know that my competence is limited and I don't know how good any other people coming are - unless we can get David Baker. A teacher must be known to be competent. I'll have a better idea - as we all will - of each others' competence at the end of this event. That's why I call it 'skill share' and not 'sawfest' or even 'proto-sawfest'. You bet each will come in time, starting with 'proto saw fest'.
I am saying 'No' for this event to people who want to come but cannot add any saw-skills.

I will work up a draft program for discussion. I was at Spoonfest this last weekend at Edale, and met Will Wall. He wants to make saw vise, as I suspect will others. This we may have to do Friday afternoon. It won't take long with some sort of assembly line worked out, so we could do vises Saturday morning

Sawman wrote:then we can see how it could go in the future.
- yep, there will be a lot of idea exploration at the event. I'll be touch with you per e mail or phone.
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