setting cutter teeth

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Roscoe
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setting cutter teeth

Post by Roscoe » April 23rd, 2015, 4:29 am

Hi Guys and thanks for all the help. I am not having any luck setting cutters on 2 man saws. This saw is a Simmonds 202 that had been sharpened down to the bridge.
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I removed the bridges and I'm up to setting teeth. So in my first set of teeth I have one that only needs .001 more set. I give it 4 or 5 firm hits and it still needs .001, 4 or 5 more and it still needs .001. I have hit this tooth 30 to 40 times and it hasn't moved. I know that this is not good. Do I have to soften the cutters? This is my hammer and anvil.
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I just bought a 15" long Morrills Apex saw set on ebay. That looks like the one that Jim showed. javascript:; The hammer is right around 16 oz.
What do you guys think?
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Roscoe
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Re: setting cutter teeth

Post by Roscoe » April 23rd, 2015, 4:32 am


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trailcrew
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Re: setting cutter teeth

Post by trailcrew » April 23rd, 2015, 4:52 am

For me, setting teeth is the most difficult part of the filing process. I never got consistent with a hammer and hand anvil and now the only really reliable way to set teeth for me is with an Anderson #5. They're pricey if you can find one at all.

For hammer setting, a couple suggestions though. Your hammer looks alright for setting, but your anvil looks like it may be on the small side. The filers I've seen who are handy with a hammer and anvil both used heavier chunks of steel. Dolly Chapman I believe uses a head from an old mash hammer, 3 or 4 lbs. Warren Miller used a hunk of steel roughly the same size. In both cases, the setting face was smooth and polished with a slight bevel ground at the top. The 4 lb drilling hammer head I used to use was worked much more effectively once I polished the face and added the bevel, though as per above, it never worked all that effectively for me.

Another option would be a set stake. You occasionally see Atkins Criterion saw sets coming up on ebay. I just found one at an antique dealer's and look forward to trying it out on a difficult saw. A Simonds 520 like yours is a difficult saw. It's a thick saw and Simonds tend to be harder in general. Heating the cutters to blue could make them move easier and reduce the likelihood of busting one with all that banging.

I broke a few cutters early on playing around with a pliers type set (Stanley 43) so have a knee jerk reaction to stay away from them, but they have their proponents as well. Try a few things on a saw that's not precious to you and let us know what seems to work.
Josh

Roscoe
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Re: setting cutter teeth

Post by Roscoe » April 23rd, 2015, 6:01 am

Thanks Josh, is the Anderson #5 a squeeze setter? Could you post a picture?

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trailcrew
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Re: setting cutter teeth

Post by trailcrew » April 23rd, 2015, 6:21 am

Anderson #5
Image
Josh

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trailcrew
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Re: setting cutter teeth

Post by trailcrew » April 23rd, 2015, 6:25 am

Incidentally, the broken tooth in the photo was not from setting.
Josh

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Jim_Thode
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Re: setting cutter teeth

Post by Jim_Thode » April 23rd, 2015, 8:00 am

Rosco,
Here are some ideas.

I agree with Josh, the heavier the anvil the better.

There are a bunch of ways to set a tooth. I've had good luck with the Apex style but it must be set do that it is doing the same action as this image:
saw set2-001-001.jpg
Note that the hammer hit is on the bevel of the tooth just barely past the bevel of the anvil. You are more moving metal rather then bending the tooth.

The Forest Service has plans for a set similar to the Anderson #5 in their New Tools for Old Saws - Crosscut Saw Tools at:
http://www.bchw.org/Tech%20tips/New%20T ... 20Saws.pdf

For a saw that has been rusted it will help to reduce the chance breaking a tooth buy filing off any pitting on the face of the tooth. The rusted surface is harder and more likely to break and by filing the surface off you get down to softer metal.
IMG_7027a.jpg
Some filers have tempered (softened) cutters so that they bend easier and there may be a rare case where that is needed. I'm not a big fan of that because softer cutters will not hold a sharp edge as long as a hard cutter.

Jim

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PATCsawyer
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Re: setting cutter teeth

Post by PATCsawyer » April 23rd, 2015, 10:24 am

When setting heavy-gauge teeth I prefer to strike vertically rather than horizontally, as I am more accurate and can take advantage of my saw vise design. The vise is bench mounted and will rotate to 90°. The legs are just high enough to allow my anvil to sit beneath the teeth and is easily adjusted with shims. The anvil is a drilling hammer head ground flat on both sides with the top corners beveled. After setting a tooth, I just move my anvil to the next one and work down the line checking set with a dial gauge. I set before final pointing. That way if I'm slightly overset, I can back hone the overage.
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Aguineapig
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Re: setting cutter teeth

Post by Aguineapig » April 23rd, 2015, 1:57 pm

Striking horizontally is a good technique to have in the repertoire. I am not good at setting, and I agree with the sentiment that it can be the most challenging aspect of setting. I filed a couple of Simonds tuttle tooth saws, and the only way I could get the teeth to move was setting them with the anvil clamped vertically in a vice, and holding the saw horizontally. I was able to strike harder and more accurately-- it's always fraught with trepidation when I have to swing hard with the saw in the vice vertically, because if I'm tired and I miss, I've just set myself back a few hours.

Anyway I was able to set those very hard, thick Simonds teeth using a light (8oz) tacking hammer, and an old ball peen hammer head would couldn't have weighed more than a pound. Very far from ideal, but I managed.

Roscoe
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Re: setting cutter teeth

Post by Roscoe » April 24th, 2015, 3:09 am

Good stuff! I'm going to try setting up a vertical anvil

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