Atkins Number 9?

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Aguineapig
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Atkins Number 9?

Post by Aguineapig » July 10th, 2012, 5:50 am

I picked one of these up for less than 10 dollars. Rusty and had a bow in it. Anybody had experience with em? Seems like a big felling saw or a combo (like Simonds 325/315?).

Aguineapig
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Re: Atkins Number 9?

Post by Aguineapig » July 11th, 2012, 5:21 am

A little update of sorts, and a question. The saw was badly rusted, but I cleaned and attempted to file anyway. I think i snapped 6 cutter tips. I think i read the rusty saws can misbehave like that. is there any hope of jointing down to less brittle steel or should I give up?

benjaminkansas
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Re: Atkins Number 9?

Post by benjaminkansas » July 11th, 2012, 4:06 pm

greetings Aguineapig.Ive snapped plenty of cc teeth in my short time filing.What has worked for me taking advice from others on this site I heat temper all teeth and rakers on saws when I first get them.I use the temp chart on this site.I heat to a purple or blue.When the dark straw comes(to me its brown.3rd color to appear when heating)pull your torch away.the teeth will continue to heat.Thats what I do.I use a plumbers sodering propane torch.I adjust it to as low as I can so I dont heat the teeth close to it too much.I heat 1/3 down from the tip going back and forth to heat evenly.If it turns grey,I let it cool,sand some bear metal and reheat.Light grey is still temper range but its close to hardening and Im afraid to make my tooth brittle again.also Starling-Saw recomended setting the tooth at a couple different points on the tooth.i.e.set alittle at 3/8 or less then alittle less than 1/4.Ive been setting 3 points.the end is a rolled set insted of an abrupt set.these are some of the things Ive tried and they have worked.I broke 2 teeth and a raker tip on the last saw I filed.I scribed the factory arch to where it brought the broken teeth back in.Handfiled to the scibe line,then I rough pointed the teeth to make less resistance for the jointer,Ive jointed dips and flat spots before.then I jointed.I hope this helps,Brother Benjamin.

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Jim_Thode
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Re: Atkins Number 9?

Post by Jim_Thode » July 11th, 2012, 10:35 pm

Aguineapig,

Another thing that I have did to prevent rusted teeth from breaking off when setting is to file the face of the tooth off to remove all the rust and pitting on the upper part of the tooth. Once the rust is filed away you should be down to softer metal that can be bent to set the teeth. I have a hard time tempering, that is softening cutter teeth if it is not absolutely necessary. It just reduces how long a saw will stay sharp.
IMG_5082a.jpg
Another option would be to set the teeth on an anvil as opposed to bending the tip of tooth. This method puts less tension on rust hardened metal. The idea is the same as straightening a saw but you just bend the tooth a little by striking the tooth about half way down with a saw hammer on the face that the set needs to be on.

Jim

Aguineapig
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Re: Atkins Number 9?

Post by Aguineapig » July 12th, 2012, 7:35 am

many thanks to you both. i will try thoroughly scouring and filing the cutters.

benjaminkansas
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Re: Atkins Number 9?

Post by benjaminkansas » July 12th, 2012, 6:54 pm

Aguineapig,and Jim Thode.Forgive me if I sounded like I know so much about cc saws.Im learning as I go and from my mistakes.The methods I wrote are things ive been trying.All of the saws I get are rusty to very rusty.I started tempering when I kept snaping teeth on one of my 1st saws.I never thought about the steel not holding an edge as long.Would like to hear how your saw turns out.Brother Benjamin.

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Crosscut Sawyer
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Re: Atkins Number 9?

Post by Crosscut Sawyer » July 15th, 2012, 5:49 pm

If you seem to be breaking a lot of teeth and raker tips, you might also want to think about how you prepare the surface of the metal you are striking. I recently saw a technique an old timer around here used where he filed a flat area on the tooth right where the bottoms of the two bevels come together. Then he could hit the right part of the tooth with a little more forgiveness when setting. Probably lots of other benefits I'm not thinking of too. Also, are you filing a deep "V" into your rakers, and not trying to move too much metal? If the rakers really are that pitted, you might want to joint further down the first time. IMHO i don't think you should file the faces of the rakers down because it narrows the edge and makes a narrower chisel in the kerf. Might affect how the saw runs more than removing the rusty tooth metal.

Aguineapig
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Re: Atkins Number 9?

Post by Aguineapig » July 15th, 2012, 6:21 pm

I should add that I didnt have any trouble lightly swaging the rakers. No broken rakers, they were well behaved. Just the cutters

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SalmonCreek
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Re: Atkins Number 9?

Post by SalmonCreek » July 16th, 2012, 2:32 pm

Good information about rust. And how to deal with it. But its my opinion, the breaking of the 6 cutting teeth has to do with the method, and not so much the rust, though it is a contributing factor. The fact the rakers swaged ok, leads me to believe its not so much the metal, but the way the teeth are being set. Teeth can be set near the tips, or lower down. Not being as confident as I would like to be, I tend to put a shallower angle, but a longer set in the teeth if that makes sense. In other words, spreading more of the set across the tooth. I'm sure that are some performance disadvantages to this, but I will live with that to make sure I break as few teeth as possible.

Aguineapig
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Re: Atkins Number 9?

Post by Aguineapig » July 16th, 2012, 6:14 pm

I wasnt setting high up the tooth at all. I usually set gradually to avoid this issue. Apart from this saw, ive only ever had 1 tooth break, and it was also on the rusty end of a very hard Simonds. Also bear in mind I swedged very little, sort of hooking them more than swedging.

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